Church Conference Talk 4

[0:00] Now to persuade someone to buy that last book, there's much more to say than we've said now, which is why the book is there. All kinds of things that need to be said, huge areas that need to be said. I'm just going to talk about a couple of them just at the moment before we get into the outline that you have in front of you. So if you're wondering where you're taking notes, there's all kinds of things. You know, before morning tea, Joshua said, well, pray as the Spirit leads you. That's a good, pious, nice, biblical sounding Christian phrase, isn't it?

[0:38] But does the Bible teach you that the Spirit leads you? You see, it sounds biblical, but is it biblical? And the answer is yes, it is.

[0:59] Almost in a completely different way than he meant. Almost. The Spirit will lead you in prayer, yes, actually. So that's not bad, but not where he thought. See, where does the Spirit lead you?

[1:17] It's in Romans chapter 8, and it's in Galatians. The Spirit will lead you to God as your Father, and to Jesus as your Lord. That's where the Spirit leads you. So to say, well, pray as the Spirit leads you is right.

[1:34] That is, the Spirit will now lead you to talk to God as your Father. But I think what we hear when we say, pray as the Spirit leads, you say, well, the things I want to pray about, the Spirit is leading me to pray about.

[1:52] That may be true, the Spirit does, but it's just you're using the Bible's language unbiblically. And in some ways, that doesn't matter, but some ways then you start to build the whole theology about what happens, because you're using this Bible language. It's one of the big problems with the Spirit.

[2:15] The people that keep on talking about things like the gifts of the Spirit, which is not the Bible's language. And then you build the whole theory on it, right? And slaying in the Spirit.

[2:27] The only time the Holy Spirit slays anybody is Ananias and Sapphira, and they're taken out and buried. If you got slayed in the Spirit in your church, you would hope to recover shortly thereafter.

[2:40] But that's not what happened to the one occasion at which it did. And actually, it's not called slaying in the Spirit anyway. But, you see, the Bible language needs to be carefully looked at.

[2:53] And in fact, language does. It's not just the Bible language. You see, at the moment, there's a lot of confusion about labels. What is a Pentecostal?

[3:05] What is a Charismatic? Is there any difference between the two? If so, what is the difference? What is the difference between Evangelical and Pentecostal and Charismatic? And is there any difference? And what is the difference? And what is a Catholic?

[3:17] See, I believe in the creed that I believe in the Catholic Church. Well, which church am I believing when I'm believing in the Catholic Church? And what is the difference between a Catholic and Evangelical?

[3:30] And so, the language and the labels, well, they get politicised as well. And so, they're used to name and shame people, to exclude people, as much as they're used to include people.

[3:48] They have historical backgrounds, each of them. The Evangelical movement was an 18th century movement. The Pentecostal movement was an early 19th century, early 20th century movement.

[4:02] We even know where it started in the Azusa Street Revival and things like that in America. The Charismatic movement is a mid-20th century movement, which has now moved in and become one with the Pentecostal movement.

[4:17] The Catholic idea was really in opposition as a language to the Orthodox or to the Armenians.

[4:28] Armenians, it's a very, very old one. They've got another word like Reformed, which is an expression of Calvinism of the 16th, 17th century, as opposed to Lutheranism, which was the 16th, 17th century.

[4:44] So, there was a great 30-year war between Lutherans and Calvinists and Catholics. But Lutherans and Calvinists are both Protestants. But they fought against each other as well in its differences.

[4:57] So, you've got these labels that have come out of history. And when they become favourable, people want to join in with them. And when they become unfavourable, people want to be distanced from them.

[5:09] One of the ones that has been most important to us in Australia has been evangelical. Because Australia was settled in 1788 by whites who were 18th century evangelicals.

[5:23] But the first gospel preaching in Australia was by an evangelical chaplain on the first fleet in Sydney. We actually know the very spot in Sydney where he preached the sermon.

[5:35] And we know what the sermon was he preached on. But it was evangelical Christianity was the only... And the early settlers who carried Christianity into Australia were the evangelicals.

[5:48] And so evangelicals have always been a very important word within Australia. But evangelical means people who believe the gospel. Evangelist means someone who preaches the gospel.

[6:02] However, the people who control language today are the journalists. Who knows we'd bother all about the Bible or any of these terms and muddle them up regularly and consistently.

[6:14] They confuse evangelist with an evangelical. I mean, there's connection. One preaches the gospel, one believes the gospel. But they're actually two different words.

[6:26] And then because evangelical has become mainstream amongst Christian churches that are growing and are actually seeing the work of God go forth.

[6:39] The Pentecostals have been very happy to have the confusion that they are evangelicals spread abroad. And so they're very happy to have the gospel.

[6:50] Because they believe in preaching the gospel. But they actually don't believe the gospel that was taught by Wesley Whitfield and the 18th century evangelicals.

[7:01] And so the word evangelical is now being evacuated of its meaning. This has been happening for 40 years. It's nothing new.

[7:12] But it's just getting worse and worse and worse. But we can't let go of the word evangelical because it's written into a lot of our institutions. Such as Scripture Union, for example.

[7:23] And I don't know if you have Scripture Union groups in schools. But in New South Wales, the only voluntary groups that are allowed in our state schools, really, Christian groups, are ISCF, which is evangelical.

[7:37] So if we give up the word evangelical, we give up inter-school Christian fellowship, which is some of the most wonderful. Loads of people have been converted through ISCF. So we can't give up the word.

[7:49] But on the other hand, the word is losing its meaning very rapidly. And people are very confused by what these words mean. They're just labels.

[8:01] But labeling is one of those methods of political control and political marginalization and the like. It's like the word fundamentalist. You know, do you want to be known as a fundamentalist?

[8:14] Well, if you read the fundamentals written by the Americans who created fundamentalism, you would say, yeah, that's exactly what I believe.

[8:27] But if you see how the word fundamentalist is used in modern English, you'd want to say, no, I'm not a fundamentalist. That's nothing like what I believe. And so we've got labeling problems that are fairly great at the moment.

[8:43] And it's a confusion for people. But Pentecostalism is something that is distinctly different from evangelicalism at the point of the authority.

[8:57] For Pentecostalism, the authority is in your experiences. Evangelicalism, the authority is in the scriptures. Both claim the spirit.

[9:11] They're spiritual experiences. It's the spirit-inspired word. But whether we stand on the promises or experience the God in the present is two different ways of relating to God.

[9:27] I'll give you the classic bad illustration. Classic bad story. You know, I can tell you bad stories about evangelicals.

[9:39] I can tell you bad stories about Pentecostals here. And bad stories happen in every church. But this illustrates the point. There was a woman charismatic pastor I knew who had a dream one night.

[9:55] And because the dreams come from the spirit of God, she obeyed the dream. And so she left her husband and went off in a adulterous relationship with her next-door neighbor.

[10:05] Because that's what the dream told her to do. See, she lived under the authority of her dreams. Leaving aside God saying, no adultery in the commandments very clearly.

[10:22] Now, it's a bad illustration in that, you know, okay, she's a nut. Her family thought she was more than a nut, I may say.

[10:34] And I can show you some nutty evangelicals who have done some pretty stupid things too. But it illustrates the difference, you see, of where does your authority lie ultimately.

[10:49] Whether it lies in your experience of God. Or whether it lies in what the scripture says about God and your experiences of God.

[11:01] And that's a big difference. That then leads you on to all kinds of other things. So evangelicals never believe in slaying in the spirit.

[11:12] Because it's just nowhere in the Bible. And it's actually pretty contrary to what the spirit comes to do. He comes to bring new life, not to death. So, you know, we're not caught. But you'll get churches all over the world who'll practice slaying in the spirit.

[11:26] And Christians, evangelicals will never get caught in the prosperity religion. Because there's so much in the New Testament about woe unto you, about the wealth, you know.

[11:36] And look at James chapter 1. You can't actually believe in the prosperity gospel and believe in James chapter 1. It's just a nonsense. And so we won't get caught that. But the world, I'm sorry to say, especially in some of the third world, the prosperity gospel is what Christianity is all about.

[11:55] It's like the old cargo cults of another generation. It's just dreadful. But that comes from the authority difference. Another illustration.

[12:08] And so that's why in that book there are these 34 appendices. Many of them because lead in the spirit is something that has to be said about four times.

[12:19] And so I put them all in the appendix. But many of them because there are issues that people rise. What do you think of grave sucking?

[12:31] You've never heard of grave sucking. Place things upon you. Stick with this church. Because there's this practice, you see, amongst some. Lying on the graves of famous people.

[12:45] And having the spirits sucking their spirit up into you. So that you will be a great servant of God. Now, they'll find a Bible passage.

[12:57] Elijah and Elisha to prove it. But really, nothing that Bible is talking about. You know, that's just nonsense.

[13:09] But, you know, it becomes famous in one little group. And another group, the one I've heard this week here, NAR, the New Apostolic Reformation.

[13:22] You know, and so you've got NARC, New Apostolic Reformation churches. And NARC church, well, narcotics drive you mad.

[13:34] So that's not surprising, really, isn't it? I just would add the C on every time. And just remember it's a NARC church. Because there's no new apostolic.

[13:46] And I'll show that in a few moments' time. One of the things, you see, I haven't talked about, I'm moving on from that kind of issue, is the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.

[14:00] We've had very little Old Testament in these days. It's not because the Holy Spirit's not in the Old Testament. Although, did you know, he's only twice ever called holy in the Old Testament.

[14:13] He's referred to as the Spirit of God, or the Spirit. But he's not referred to as the Holy Spirit. That's a New Testament term. That's an interesting, why is that? Well, I'm not going to go into it now.

[14:24] But what is the work of the Spirit in the Old Testament? Why from the Old Testament would we expect the Spirit to come in the New Testament?

[14:35] Come with me to Ezekiel 36 and 37. Ezekiel 36, 37. Yeah, I haven't reached the first heading yet. Don't worry. Ezekiel 36, 37.

[14:52] The people of Israel are under the Babylonian captivity. Because of their sinfulness, they have brought dishonor to the name of God. And so he has punished them.

[15:02] And they're all off in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is destroyed. The temple is destroyed. They're in captivity. And God promises to bring them back out of the captivity. It's a wonderful message, you see.

[15:14] But this will bring a new age. And so, notice in verse 24 of Ezekiel 36, verse 24. I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.

[15:28] I will sprinkle clean water on you and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses and from all your idols. I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and a new spirit.

[15:41] I will put within you and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

[15:55] You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers and you shall be my people. And I will be your God. What's the spirit come to do? It comes to move us to obey the law of God.

[16:10] Well, you see how that fits in with what I've been saying just in the last session. And when the spirit comes, he moves us to love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, against which there is no law.

[16:20] Because they're the very things. How do you summarize the law? Love God, love your neighbor. What does the spirit come to do? Make you love God, love the neighbor. The spirit actually comes.

[16:30] And that's what Ezekiel promises the spirit is coming to do. And that's why poor Nicodemus, you see, he didn't understand. You've got to be born of water and the spirit because Ezekiel 36 says it's going to happen.

[16:43] Actually, if you study Ezekiel 36 carefully, you'll find the whole Lord's Prayer is in Ezekiel 36. But hey, that's another study on another day. I won't do that for you now. But chapter 37 is one of the most famous parts of the Old Testament.

[16:58] Because the prophet goes out and sees a valley full of dry bones. And God says, what do you see? He says, a valley full of dry bones. Can these bones live? Says God.

[17:08] And the prophet very wisely says, well, you know. And so he says, preach to them. Preach to them. And as he preaches the word of God, the spirit comes upon the bones and the bones come together.

[17:20] And we've all heard a song, haven't we, of yesteryear about this. The knee bone joins to the hip bone. And the whole nation stands up. It's called the resurrection. Here is the Old Testament teaching on the resurrection.

[17:34] And at the end of that chapter 37, you'll find out what happens when the nation gathers together like this in the resurrection. I will appoint my king, David, to be the ruler over all of them.

[17:46] Ezekiel 37 is about the coming of King David. The proper King David. The real King David. David's greater son who is going to lead God's resurrected people.

[17:57] It's there in 37. And a key element of this day of resurrection when the son comes to be the ruler. A key element of it is the spirit bringing new life.

[18:10] What the New Testament teaches has been foreshadowed in the Old Testament. But I've skipped past it.

[18:21] But I thought to myself, you know, there are some things I shouldn't skip past. I should just tell you that it's there. Right? There's a lot more to it there. But it's there. And it's very clearly there. And so it's not just Jesus who says what to expect in the Old Testament.

[18:36] Sorry. It's not just Jesus who tells you what to expect in the coming of the Spirit. The Old Testament tells you what to expect in the coming of the Holy Spirit. And surprise, surprise.

[18:47] It's the same thing. Right? And then the Spirit comes and gives you these things. Which is marvellous. It really is marvellous. Which would you prefer?

[18:59] To have your eyesight cured and go to hell? Or be blind as a bat and go to heaven? Healing miracles are pretty unimportant compared to heaven and hell.

[19:17] And the Gospel is about heaven and hell. Not about getting rid of eyesight problems. I'm going for my cataracts to be operated on soon.

[19:28] I'm all for solving eyesight problems. Don't worry. But it doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things. It's not Gospel.

[19:40] At all. Yes.

[19:51] There's my little list of things to anticipate your questions about. Okay. I'm moving to point one.

[20:04] You see. What I've been wanting to talk about is why Jesus sent the Spirit. And one of the first answers is a really weird answer to the question.

[20:14] That is because the Spirit comes from the Father. That doesn't seem to be an answer, does it? Well, it is the answer, you see. Because in a series of statements and promises that Jesus made to the apostles on the night he was betrayed.

[20:32] Jesus speaks of the Spirit coming from the Father at his request. From the Son sending the Spirit. And from the Spirit coming himself.

[20:46] I mean, it's somehow understandable that the Spirit would be given by the Father in response to the Son's prayer. But who did Jesus think he was to be able to say, I'm going to send you the Spirit of God?

[21:01] What man can send the Spirit of God? Who has such power and authority as to be able to tell God's Spirit what to go and do? See, on the day of Pentecost, we find the answer to that.

[21:14] That by his resurrection, Jesus rises to sit at the right hand of God in all power and authority. For God has made him both Lord and Christ. And Jesus has received the promise from the Father, the promised Spirit from the Father.

[21:29] And has now poured the Spirit out upon all flesh. Why did Jesus send the Spirit? Because Jesus was King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

[21:41] Because Jesus was the Christ. Because Jesus was the Messiah. Because of who Jesus was and where he'd come to be, both Christ and Lord. The pouring out of the Spirit by the risen Lord Jesus mustn't be taken for granted.

[21:54] Because it points very clearly to who Jesus really is. It is the ultimate expression of Jesus' total victory over Satan.

[22:05] An appointment by God as Christ and Lord over the whole universe. It's the appointment of Jesus as the ruler of the world. The ruler of this world and the world to come.

[22:16] The judge of the living and the dead. Why did Jesus send his Spirit? It's first and foremost because he had received the Spirit from the Father to send the Spirit to the world.

[22:28] The coming of the Spirit is all about Jesus. And that's what the day of Pentecost sermon is about. And that's what the Gospel is about. Remember, I may remind you, in Romans chapter 1.

[22:42] If I could just draw your attention to that opening paragraph again of Romans 1. Where Paul speaks of the Gospel of God at the end of verse 1. And I'm not hearing you turning it up.

[22:53] But then again, I can't hear telephones rotating those things. So I presume that's the case. But in verse 2. The Gospel which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh, declared to be the Son of God in power by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of holiness, by his resurrection from the dead.

[23:22] Jesus Christ, Lord. Through him we've received the grace and apostleship. So in this paragraph then, in this Gospel, there is the importance of the apostles.

[23:38] Jesus poured out all his flesh on, in particular, the apostles. When he left, the twelve apostles were bereft of Judas.

[23:59] And so in Acts chapter 1, they appoint another one, Matthias. Having been the rector of the Church of St. Matthias, which is the only one on mainland Australia.

[24:15] The Tasmanians have got one, in other words. And being the founder of Matthias Media, I have a certain emotional attachment to Acts chapter 1.

[24:29] But more important than my emotional attachment is what's being said. Look with me, please. Acts 1, verse 21. Because it's not just Romans 1 tells you the Gospel is all about the Holy Spirit coming, declaring Jesus to be God of gods, light of lights.

[24:46] But also, it's about the apostles. Because they were unique. Which is why you can't have a second new apostolic reformation.

[24:59] Acts 1, verse 21. Acts 1, verse 21. So one of the men who had been accompanied, they looked to appoint someone.

[25:12] So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out amongst us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us, one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.

[25:32] Ponder. Hold for a minute. Hold for a minute. You see, we keep using the word witness to mean somebody who's seen something. But he can't become a witness if he hasn't seen it.

[25:44] But other people have seen it, not just the one. A witness is more than an eyewitness. A witness is someone who testifies to the truth.

[25:56] It's not just that he sees the truth, knows the truth, but he testifies to the truth. So he's got to become a testifier to the truth. I'm picking up verse 23 now.

[26:07] And they pull forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justice, and Matthias. So there were two men who fulfilled the requirements.

[26:18] They'd always been around. They'd always seen these things. They'd heard all the teaching. They'd seen Jesus' resurrection. And the disciples then prayed and said, You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen.

[26:35] To be an apostle, you have to be chosen by Jesus on the basis of having seen everything Jesus did and having heard all the teaching of Jesus.

[26:46] There were two available. And so they cast lots. But notice what it is. Which ones have you chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship?

[27:00] From which Judas turned aside to go to his own place. And they cast lots for them and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the 11 apostles. The 12 apostles are a set group.

[27:13] The qualifications cannot be found in 21st century people. Just impossible. Because we weren't there at the time.

[27:25] We didn't see his risen body. We didn't hear his teaching. We didn't meet John the Baptist. None of us can qualify to be one of these apostles. And even amongst the more than 11 who could qualify, they still had to be chosen by Jesus.

[27:45] And so Matthias gets numbered as one of the 11. And from there on in you hear about the 12 apostles, not the 11. Because now it's 12. Matthias is the indication of the closure of the Christian truth.

[27:59] What we know about Jesus is all from there, not from here. We know no more about Jesus today than we did in the first century.

[28:13] All the academics, all the theologians, all the writings, all the... There is nothing in my book that can tell you something more than is in the Bible.

[28:25] This is the sum total of what we can know. Matthias is a great illustration of the closure of the revelation of God in Christ Jesus. It's the end point.

[28:37] And so when people have new revelations of God, watch out. Okay. We seem to go for questions. We're going to go for questions. I don't know if we'll get back to the talk, but I'm saying 10.

[28:51] And so I'm just going to number them here. You're going to call out whatever questions you want. I don't care what they're on. It doesn't matter to me. If I don't know the answer, I'll bluff. No, I'll tell you I don't know the answer. Bluffing's good fun.

[29:02] Away we go. Ladies first. Can you speak about... Yes, I can speak about anything.

[29:13] Yes, but can I make any sense? That's another subject. Can you speak, please, about what unity as Christians should look like, particularly with our Pentecostal friends? Yes.

[29:29] Yep. Yes, thank you. In the second talk, you talked about how... I've changed my mind. Next. Go on.

[29:39] How them speaking different languages is a sign of their liberation. Can you just go into that in a little more detail? Well... Sign of liberation.

[29:51] Yeah, is that okay? Yep. Yep. Down the best bar, Grim of the church. Yeah. In the first talk, you took us to Psalm 146, where it says...

[30:03] I haven't heard a word you've said. In your first talk, you took us to Psalm 146, where it says, Put not your trust in princes in a son of man. How are you meant to understand that with Jesus as the son of man?

[30:17] Whether or not to trust him? Oh, that's clever. Mm-hmm. Yep. Down the front here, and then there's one over there.

[30:29] Galatians 5, 19, in the ESV, one of the works of the flesh is sensuality. What does Paul mean by that?

[30:42] Mm-hmm. And also, how to put to death the works of the flesh that are more hidden? Not so much... You know, like, if I'm going to orgies, I stop going to orgies.

[30:54] That's kind of simple, but how do I put to death those other hidden things? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sorry, I snatched you. Yep, that's all right.

[31:08] Again, a little testimony time later about confessions. Yeah. You've spoken a lot about the resurrection being part of our understanding of the spirit, and my question is, when we're thinking about our own present status as Christians with the spirit, what role does the idea of being raised with Christ, being risen, being a new creation now, have to Jesus' resurrection and to our future bodily resurrection?

[31:42] And what does it mean to be raised now in that context? Yep. Yep. We're heading somewhere. There's one way over there.

[31:54] There's one back there. I don't know if you're just running around. And the one over there is pointing to the one over here. You've got a big voice, haven't you, brother? Yeah. Wimper and his associates...

[32:06] Yes. ...recommend that we develop the capacity to know what the spirit's saying to us through hunches. Now, the great saints like George Mueller and Hudson Taylor felt that they could come to a place of quite deep conviction that God wanted them to do something, like Mueller wanted to open a new home.

[32:29] Could you just comment on this sort of difference in teaching? Mueller and who was the other one? Hudson Taylor. Yeah, Hudson Taylor. Yeah, thank you. Yeah.

[32:40] Yeah. We're up to six.

[32:50] Number seven. Number six. Have you talked about the, I guess, the mind and the emotions? Whereabouts does the heart fit into that? Mm-hmm.

[33:01] Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay. Number eight. Just compare, contrast the idea of fill me with the Holy Spirit versus the idea God needs more of me rather than I need more of the Holy Spirit.

[33:27] Sorry, filling with the Holy Spirit with... Now, the difference between this statement, please fill me with your Holy Spirit versus the Holy Spirit needs more of me.

[33:41] Oh. In other words... Yep. Is he divisible? Yeah. Yeah.

[33:56] Can I answer him? Leading in the Spirit, yes? Can you... No. Can you comment on some of those occasions, weird occasions, when the Spirit doesn't seem to bring self-control?

[34:10] I'm thinking of the weird one where Saul goes in, goes, strips naked and then prophesies, and where Peter has a trance or enters into a trance, and what does that have to do with the Spirit who's supposed to bring self-control?

[34:24] Well... Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just a question on that.

[34:35] Number ten. Here we go. Thank you. The judgment being now. It's the time of judgment, so it's the resurrection time. I'm just a little confused on what it means by the time of judgment has come in the resurrection.

[34:50] Mm-hmm. Okay. Sorry?

[35:00] Yeah. Just a small one, Philip. To... To what extent is the charismatic movement a sociological rather than a theological movement?

[35:17] Hands up those... Hands up those who want me to break the rule and move to the 11th question. Hands up those who want to put him in his place.

[35:28] I'm looking at your dear sister. You don't want to put him in his place? I thought it was a good opportunity. Okay.

[35:39] Good. Okay. Okay. Let me quickly run through points three to five and then come back to these.

[35:50] Okay. We'll finish with these. Can I say, it is a great pleasure and privilege to be in this church for lots and lots of reasons. But one of the reasons is you really are people who struggle in the Word of God and eager to learn the Word of God.

[36:06] And it just is a breath of fresh air to be with you. I go to lots of conferences these days and I have lots of questions. And that's an unusual list. That's the list of questions of people who want to hear what God has to say and who want to know what the Scripture is saying.

[36:23] And it's just a pleasure to be here. I think Helen and I feel really at home here. We're not moving to Queensland. But if we did, we know we'd go to church, even if it was from Townsville every Sunday morning.

[36:39] So it just is, it's lovely to be home because that's how you make us feel. And that is really lovely. And thank you so much. The Gospel comes through the Lord Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit to the world.

[36:56] So the passage we read for us earlier, 1 Peter chapter 1. You see the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is called the Spirit of Christ. It's 1 Peter 1, 10 to 12.

[37:07] The Spirit of Christ was inside the prophets. Prophesying about what was going to happen to the Christ. That he would suffer and die. But they didn't know what it meant.

[37:21] They searched, they inquired, but they couldn't find out what this business was. The Christ is going to suffer and die. It never did make sense until it happened. And then it makes sense if you have the Holy Spirit teaching you what Jesus had taught you.

[37:39] You know, we are just so Christianised, we don't capture the enormity of the mind shift that has now happened. Right? But after the cross, with the teaching of the Spirit, that is the teaching of Jesus, teaching before the cross, suddenly it all makes sense.

[37:59] It did not make sense to the prophets. They talked about it, but they just didn't know what it meant. And they knew they didn't know what it meant. That's what he's saying here. It was revealed to them, verse 12, that they weren't serving themselves.

[38:12] The Old Testament's a Christian book. It's not written for the Old Testament people. It's written for the New Testament people. It's so that we will understand what happened when Jesus died on the cross and rose again.

[38:23] So the priest, the sacrifice, the altar, the temple, they're all set up so that we will understand Jesus, our great high priest and sacrifice.

[38:34] The whole thing is there. So the Exodus, where they get redeemed out of Israel by the Passover lamb, that was all there. So we will understand Jesus is the Passover lamb who rescues us out of the kingdom of evil.

[38:50] It's all there for us to understand, but they didn't understand it themselves. It's the Christian book, the Old Testament. But these things have now been announced to you through those who preach the good news to you.

[39:04] And then this other little phrase kicks in. By the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Because the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven to clarify the gospel for the preachers.

[39:18] And so the Holy Spirit was sent to the apostles so the apostles would remember what Jesus said and make sense of Jesus' death and resurrection. And remember, when Jesus met them in Luke 24, he opens their minds to understand the scriptures.

[39:36] And the scriptures are saying, the Christ must suffer, the Christ must rise from the dead, and repentance and forgiveness will be preached to all nations, starting from Jerusalem.

[39:49] And when the Holy Spirit comes upon them, the pennies all drop. And they preach the gospel. And so the Holy Spirit is the evangelist, the world missionary leader.

[40:03] That's what he empowers them to do. And so it's more than world evangelism. For the Spirit is sent to the non-Christians.

[40:14] Remember how he said in John 16, that Jesus said they're going to convict the world. They're going to expose the world. They're going to show the world. They're going to prove to the world the world is full of sin.

[40:27] Because look what they did to Jesus. And Jesus is actually the righteous one. Because look, he has risen from the dead.

[40:40] And his resurrection proves sin has been fully paid for. He has been vindicated, as it says in 1 Timothy chapter 3. And thirdly, the judgment of the world.

[40:53] Because when Jesus spoke, he said, now is the judgment of the world. Now will the evil one be thrown out. The God of this world will be thrown out.

[41:04] And what's he talking about? He's talking about his death. In his death, the judgment of the world commences. So the punishment of sin in hell commences with Jesus bearing it for us.

[41:19] And the resurrection commences with Jesus, who's the firstborn of the resurrection. It all starts. The whole new world order starts. And so the Holy Spirit comes, as we saw in 1 Thessalonians chapter 1, just before morning tea, comes so that the elect will respond in faith.

[41:41] That those who are God's chosen people will hear the message, not as the words of men, but as the words of God, which changes our very lives.

[41:54] You see it in 1 Thessalonians 1. The Holy Spirit comes with conviction, but he also comes with affliction and joy that the Holy Spirit brings.

[42:06] So when the gospel comes, you've got to expect opposition. We've been too long in a peaceful country. We're a little bit surprised that we're getting so much opposition now.

[42:17] But that's how the gospel goes. It's always down the centuries. When people get converted, other people get upset. That's the nature of it. I don't like it any more than you do, any more than God does.

[42:28] But it's the reality, so let's not pretend that suddenly everyone's going to be happy that we're Christians. Quite manifestly in Australia, they're not happy. But it comes.

[42:40] And so the next point is, the Spirit is sent to Christians. For it's the Spirit who makes us Christians by regeneration, teaching us that Jesus is our Lord and God is our Father.

[42:55] And so the kingdom of God requires you to be born again by the Spirit, Nicodemus. You can't see the kingdom of God unless you're born again by the Spirit.

[43:09] And so the importance of the Spirit in our lives, making us Christians, bringing us together into the family of God's people. It's all there, you see.

[43:19] And so the Spirit is sent to the church. Not in terms of gifts, but in terms of faith. That's how the Spirit is. Not producing gifts, but producing fruit.

[43:31] Not for our sake, but for the building of each other in love. See, what's a spiritual church look like? Well, it's full of people who say and acknowledge and live with Jesus as their Lord.

[43:42] And it's full of people who, with Jesus as their Lord and their Saviour, are using whatever gifts God has given them, out of the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self-control, that the Spirit is at work in them.

[43:59] And so it's as you grow in the fruit of the Spirit, that you show that you are part of God's church. Because we now don't serve ourselves, but each other, in building the church.

[44:15] By this will all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. The sign of the Christian church is not the cross.

[44:27] It's certainly not the crucifix, because the crucifix has the body still on. The body's not still on the cross. He's risen. He's not here. And it's not the fish. The Holy Spirit doesn't come to advertise himself.

[44:39] The Holy Spirit comes to advertise Jesus. I mean, if you're going to use a visual sign, use the cross. But actually, the sign of the real church is their love for one another. You walk into a congregation where people are caring for each other, that is a really powerful testimony.

[44:56] That's the real sign of the true church. It's the spiritual regeneration. That's what matters. And so a spiritual church is nothing like the Corinthians, divided, immoral, fighting over gifts.

[45:11] That is the essence of an unspiritual church. A spiritual church is like Colossians and like Philippians, where they're loving. I now have 17 minutes to answer 11 questions.

[45:26] What is the nature of unity? Well, the Spirit encourages us. We are to actually seek to maintain the unity. We don't create unity. We maintain the unity.

[45:38] Right? It's in Colossians chapter 4. The unity is created by the Holy Spirit. The unity is created by the Holy Spirit, bringing us all to acknowledge Jesus as Lord and God as our Father.

[45:49] That's why it gets really confusing when you're meeting with Roman Catholics or Greek Orthodox or Armenian Orthodox or Charismatics. Or Charismatics. Of course, they say they believe God is their Father.

[46:00] They believe Jesus is Lord. But, of course, it's not just saying. It's just how you live. Whether you actually live under the Lordship of Jesus Christ or you live under the Orthodox Church. That's two different things.

[46:12] Every Greek I've ever met believes in the Bible, believes in Jesus, believes in the resurrection and has never read the Bible. And doesn't actually understand what the Gospel of Jesus is.

[46:24] It's very sad. The Orthodox. But that's the same with Pentecostalism. They all acknowledge Jesus as Lord and that's terrific. But then the rubber hits the road.

[46:34] Are they going to accept the Lordship of what Jesus said? And that's why I've written the book. If you haven't bought one, you can get one from them. Don't go to Amazon. Go to Matthias Media. It's $10 cheaper. You get one from Matthias Media.

[46:47] And read it with your charismatic friends. Say to them, you believe the Bible and believe Jesus. I believe the Bible and believe Jesus. Let's look at what the Bible says. And just read it with them.

[46:59] You know, go chapter by chapter. See, it's not what the Bible says. I can't tell you it's perfect. It's not. I'm sure it's not. But at least that gives you a basis for talking with those.

[47:11] And those who really believe the Bible will say, yeah, I now see it's true. And those who don't really believe the Bible will say, no, no, it's not true. No, that's not what my pastor says. One of the sociological changes that's happened is, in the 1960s, evangelicalism was large in the mainstream.

[47:30] People who became Pentecostals turned their back on evangelicalism and walked away and hated it. A generation later, though there are evangelicals, but I'm Pentecostal.

[47:42] A generation later, who are those people? They're not Pentecostal. Do they really? I don't know anything about them. We're now in the third generation. Young people, they've grown up in a Pentecostal church, but they've never had the gospel of Jesus Christ explained to them explicitly.

[48:00] And so now is the time for us to reach out for them and study the Bible with them. And those who love the Lord Jesus really will rejoice in the Bible and will move. And those who actually are spiritual, but not wholly spiritual, they will reject the message.

[48:18] But I hope the book is a vehicle to help you. Number two, defining language. Yes, different languages. And the day of Pentecost was liberation because different languages was oppression.

[48:35] And so Muslims can only ever pray in Arabic. The biggest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia, most of them can't speak Arabic, but they pray in Arabic because that's God's holy language.

[48:51] The Jews still thought Hebrew as God's holy language in a sense. So they were speaking in Greek and other languages. But the languages of the other nations were the signs of assimilation and oppression.

[49:05] Suddenly, the gospel is being preached in the languages of oppression. What has happened? That's the thing they can't understand.

[49:17] He's a Sidonian speaker. He's a Galilean, but he's speaking Sidonian. And these people who hate the Lord Jesus Christ are now saying, well, in their language, he's now being saying how God has done wonderful things.

[49:31] You see, it's saying the days of your assimilation oppression are over. The languages of the world are now being used to praise God. Big liberation that has happened.

[49:43] Big reversal. Now, Psalm 146 about Jesus. Well, he is the son of man, and he is a man, and he is still the man. But the son of man is a phrase from Daniel 7. It means he is the world ruler, and the king of kings, and lord of lords.

[49:57] So he's a man, but he's more than a man. Galatians 5, 19. What is the meaning of sensuality? Sensuality is 21st century Australian life.

[50:11] It's pornography. It's adultery. It's fornication. It's what you see on the television most nights of the week. It's what Hollywood is about. It's your senses, your physical senses, and it's a way of talking about excesses, usages of your senses.

[50:27] In other words, basically about sexuality. That's the word that lies behind it. I can't remember the Greek word, and I haven't got it up here to tell you. One of the others passed this year could tell you. How do you put to death the hidden works of the flesh?

[50:40] That's the problem, isn't it? There's that great famous church car park conversion, where you've come to the church, all fighting, quarrelling like mad.

[50:50] You arrive at the church, you get out, and everybody's smiling, and the whole family's happy. And there's that wonderful conversion that happens when you arrive at the church. And friends, you see, it's easy to publicly be very Christian and privately be very sinful.

[51:07] And the question is, right, you've got to put to death all the works of the flesh, envy, rivalry, jealousy, etc. I'm going to pick your testimony.

[51:18] That's brilliant, you know. I'm going to become a Christian younger than him. Competitiveness, right, in the male psyche. This boy was born with testosterone. You know, man, it's just so godless.

[51:32] You know, I'm going to beat you to get converted. I think that's marvellous. You know, we laugh at it because it's yesterday, but if it was today, you hide it.

[51:44] You know, we've got to put it to death, what's privately sinful. The resurrection. What is the present state in the resurrection body?

[51:55] Yes. Okay. The spirit has come with the resurrected body of the Lord Jesus Christ, who pours it out upon us, and we now receive it in our old, frail bodies.

[52:09] And we now are moved to be raised up to sit with him in the heavenly realms, as it says in Ephesians chapter 2. And so we always were spiritual beings.

[52:23] We always were in touch with the spiritual world. The heavenly realms, remember, have the powers of darkness and evil as well. But we are now in Christ in those heavenly realms because we've been resurrected already.

[52:36] And so Colossians chapter 3, you can say, you know, if you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above where Christ is. See to the right hand of God. For you have died, and your life is now hidden in Christ.

[52:49] And when Christ appears, then you will appear with him in glory. So at the moment, you look at this body, and you say, Philip, you've got a glorious body. If you think this is glorious, wait till Jesus returns, then you will really see glory.

[53:03] And if you think this is glory, you need cataract operations as well, don't you? I mean, this is hardly the glorious body. It might be better than yours, but it's not really the glorious body. This is the old, the cane mortal body that ages and sags and bags and wrinkles and balls and all.

[53:21] I'm dying. So are you. We're all dying. Our bodies are dead and dying. That's, grasp the reality. You know, when you're young, you get better every day until you're about 18, and then it's the slide down.

[53:36] Right? It's a long, slow slide for most of us, but you're dead. You always have been dead. Grasp it. Right? And don't be surprised when it happens, because that's what it is. I've been dying for a long time now, about 78 years.

[53:50] I've been dying. That's what I am. And that's what you're dying to, you see. And this body is like that. But I've been born again. Not physically yet, but spiritually.

[54:03] And I am now sitting in with you, in the heavenly realms with Christ Jesus. You said, I thought the chairs would be more comfortable. Right? No, no. The chairs are where your body is.

[54:13] Right? You're sitting spiritually with Christ in the heavenly realms. But when Christ returns, you see, your life is now a hidden life in Christ Jesus.

[54:24] It is somebody here who's not a Christian. I look around. I don't know which one it is. Because it's the hidden sins of the heart.

[54:35] I can't see those. I hope everybody here is Christian, but I can't see. Because the life in Christ is a hidden life. Our life is hid with Christ.

[54:47] When he returns, well, then we will see him in glory. There's a wonderful verse in Philippians chapter 3. Is it Philippians chapter 3? I think I can do this in time.

[54:59] The King James. I love the King James version. I'm sorry that the world moved on and the language is no longer possible for us to use. Because it had certain kind of vigor to it that modern translations are scared of.

[55:14] And so in Philippians 3, Our citizenship is in heaven, verse 20, And from it we await a saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

[55:34] So it's when the Lord Jesus returns, our body will catch up with our spirit. Then we will be transformed into... But the body we're transformed into is going to be a lot better than the present one.

[55:47] Because the present one is riddled by mortality. It's riddled by ageing. Whereas the new one will be of an eternal character. But it'll be a body. We're looking for the resurrection of the body.

[55:59] But it'll be glorious like his body will be glorious. The King James Version said, Not our lowly body, but our vile body.

[56:10] V-I-L-E. That's a word you don't get to use often these days. It's got a power to it, hasn't it? You don't think of your body as vile. But it is because it is so riddled by death and Satan.

[56:24] And this body is going to be transformed into the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ on the last day. At the moment, it's a spiritual resurrection.

[56:35] We wait the physical one. What about these hunches? Yes, Wimber calls them words of knowledge. And therein lies the difference between your question and the problem, I think.

[56:50] Wimber was sure he was getting words of knowledge on all kinds of subjects. And because he got these words of knowledge from the Spirit, he then had to do whatever it was.

[57:03] When I asked him about it, he agreed that some of them were wrong. And I said, well, how do you know the ones that are right and the ones that are wrong? He says, well, they don't turn out right. But I said, if it comes from the Spirit of God, how do you know?

[57:14] And you see, if he'd used the word hunch, I wouldn't have minded. I have a hunch that God wants me to do X, Y, Z. Good. Well, then you might have a go at it.

[57:26] But a hunch does not have any certainty about it, does it? The very nature of a hunch is it feels like I should. But when pious people put the language of hunch into things like words of knowledge or the Spirit tells me I should, that's when I have a problem.

[57:45] Because I don't know that it's the Spirit who has told you. And as Helen would tell you, when I met Mr. Wimber and I spent time, I came back and talked to her about it.

[57:56] And she said, Philip, you've been having those words of knowledge for years. And it is right. I've had hunches for years. I've just never called them words of knowledge. So I remember going over to interstate.

[58:09] It wasn't Brisbane, but we'll call it Brisbane. I came to a university mission. And I remember sitting down and talking to the daughter of my host in this place I was living for 10 days as I did a mission.

[58:22] I did a mission with you, didn't it? It was great fun. It was fabulous at UQ some years ago. But I sat with her and I looked at this girl and I thought, she's sleeping with a boyfriend and the family doesn't know.

[58:36] So when the family went out to wash up or clean up or something, I just said to her, you've gone too far with the boy, haven't you? And his look of death on her face, she said to me, who told you?

[58:50] It's just a hunch. It's just the way she dressed. It just wasn't the way Christians normally behave. I don't know. It was just an inkling. It was just a hunch. It was right.

[59:02] Mind you, I've had other hunches and they're wrong. So I don't want to say the Spirit told me that. That's overstating my authoritative knowledge.

[59:14] Did the Spirit tell me? Yeah, most likely. Afterwards, you can talk about providence. Because beforehand, it's very dangerous to talk about providence.

[59:25] But even afterwards, talking about providence, God led me to this place this weekend for these reasons. Well, I don't know, though, for these reasons or some other reason.

[59:36] It depends how it all turns out. I don't want to claim more knowledge of God than I know. It's very dangerous to do that. Now, Mr. Mueller and Hudson Taylor were great men of God who did incredible and extraordinary things in their lives.

[59:56] And I think they used language carelessly. But they lived in an age before the charismatic movement. And before the charismatic movement, many of us used language carelessly.

[60:07] And many of us used the Bible carelessly. And when the charismatics came, they used the language carelessly in the way that evangelicals generally use the language carelessly.

[60:19] And one of the things the charismatic movement has done for us is to get us to look back and be much more careful about what the Bible does or doesn't say. And so you read some of the ancient saints and you think, yeah, I wish he hadn't said it that way.

[60:37] But he wasn't living in an age when people were making these extraordinary outlandish claims like Mr. Wimber did. And Mr. Wimber really made crazy claims.

[60:49] I've got to be moving. The mind and the emotions, where does the heart fill in? It doesn't. The heart in the Bible is the mind and the emotions in the Bible are in the bowels.

[61:05] Which is much more realistic than our language, isn't it? Because where do you feel your butterflies? Where do you feel your emotions? The old translation was Jesus in the bowels of his compassion.

[61:20] It's wonderful, the King James Version. It just says things as it is. Within the Bible, the heart is actually the mind. It's the person. It's yourself.

[61:33] And so I've used the word mind. The word does use mind as well, but heart. But if you're going to talk about emotions in the Bible, look up bowels. Because that's where you find your emotions, apparently.

[61:47] Filling with the Holy Spirit. What about the Holy Spirit needs more of me? The Holy Spirit never needs any more of you. The Holy Spirit's God. He doesn't need anything. He doesn't need any more of you.

[62:00] So don't worry about it. If he wants something, he will have it. Number nine. The Spirit doesn't seem to be in control of Trances and Peter.

[62:11] Well, he is. And these are the extraordinary circumstances in which he had to operate. There are certain extraordinary moments in history. The day of Pentecost is one.

[62:22] The conversion of the first non-Jew is another. The conversion of the Samaritans is another. And that's what the book of Acts is spelling out. The extraordinary. They're not written to you as the models of what's going to happen.

[62:36] They're written to you because they are absolutely different to the models of what's going to happen. And Pentecost. So Peter's dream happened. To get Peter to evangelize the Gentiles, God had to send a dream to him, which was repeated and repeated.

[62:54] A dream to, words to Cornelius. And there's a whole, about five things to actually get Peter to get out of his bed and go to Cornelius and go into his house.

[63:04] For a Jew to go into the house of a Gentile, let alone to tell him about the gospel, let alone to see him converted, let alone to accept him as genuinely converted.

[63:16] This was climbing Mount Everest without oxygen. It was that big. And that's why these extraordinary things happened. Time, judgment has come in the resurrection.

[63:31] Well, that's what Jesus is saying. The judgment starts with the death of Jesus. For there is the judgment of the world. I went to hell the day Jesus died.

[63:44] I came to new life the day Jesus rose. I wasn't even born. But that's the judgment. I don't need to go to hell. Because I've been there already in Jesus' death.

[63:58] The judgment of the world started back then. And is charismatic a sociological thing? I did agree in sociology.

[64:10] The basic reason for studying sociology is to realise how stupid sociology is. I just thought I'd share that with you. It was three years of sociological study has led me to this conclusion.

[64:24] You go by all means and enjoy it. Everybody passes sociology because they do not believe in failure. That's actually hard. That's cruel. Make people fail. So no matter what you say, you'll pass in sociology.

[64:37] You want an easy degree? Do sociology. Right? You'll learn nothing. But you'll get a degree. However, you can analyse anything sociologically you want to.

[64:48] And you can certainly analyse the charismatic movement sociologically. That is quite possible to do. And I think that it arose historically at the time of the high water mark of scientific materialism, the 1950s, 60s, seems to me a significant factor.

[65:09] But I can't prove that. I'm just saying when the world turned away from all theistic thinking into this hard science solution for everything, and they really did.

[65:23] The 1950s, 1960s, science was God. When I went to university in the early 1960s, every subject was science. I was doing arts. So when I did history, history is a science.

[65:37] That was the first lecture. When I did psychology, psychology is a science. That's the first. Sociology is English. I did English one, and they told me it was a science. Because if it wasn't a science, it wasn't true.

[65:50] So the whole world was just science mad. And the reaction, I think, was things like the New Age movement, because it came alive in the 60s, and the charismatics came alive in the 60s, because we knew there's more to science.

[66:07] There's more to life than science. It actually doesn't work. That can't be right. And so that was the reaction. The atheists, of course, had the big reaction in the 90s, in what's called postmodernism, where they finally woke up to the fact that everybody's biased, even and including especially scientists.

[66:27] Only mathematicians are pure. Is that right, Jim? I thought so, yes. Only mathematicians are pure. That's because mathematics is a deductive system with no relationship to the world.

[66:39] Thank you. Stay here.

[66:54] Stay here. Friends, we have been very blessed with our time with Philip and Helen amongst us. I'm going to ask Philip to pray, lead us in prayer, and for our church, and then we'll have a couple of things from the enforcer.

[67:12] Sing a song, pack up the hall and go for lunch. Is that all right? Be let's in prayer. Thank you. Sure. Heavenly Father, we do thank and praise you that when you call us to be your children, you call us into your family.

[67:25] And we thank and praise you, Father, not just for you and not just for your son, and that's enough to be praising you, but we praise you, Heavenly Father, for our brothers and our sisters who are here with us, with whom we meet week by week, and with whom we meet here on this time together.

[67:43] We thank you for each one, Father. We thank you for the love that they have for each other and the love we have for each other and the love we receive from each other.

[67:54] We thank you for the fellowship around your word and the fellowship of song as we sing your spiritual words and spiritual songs. We thank you, Father, for the privilege we have of praying together, of thinking together, of living together.

[68:10] We thank you for these beautiful children, Father, that you give to us to love and to raise. We thank you for all the honorary uncles and aunts in this congregation caring for each other's children and helping and encouraging each other.

[68:25] We thank you, Father, for our church. And we do pray, Father. We pray that you would continue to work in us by your Spirit, producing that love, that joy, that peace, that patience, that kindness, that gentleness, that goodness, that self-control, that we may be able to serve one another in love, that we may be able to build your church by proclaiming the gospel to each other and proclaiming the gospel to the world.

[68:57] We beg for your mercy, Father, that the Spirit would come to Brisbane, that as we preach the gospel, he would lead people to you as their Father and to Jesus as their Lord, that you would bring about a great change to our godless city.

[69:17] And we do pray, Father, for our congregation, that we may not be distracted by the things of this world. we may not be defeated by the flesh that we are still in, but that we may continue to walk in step with your Spirit, that we may grow into the very likeness of Christ as we await for that time when he returns to take us home.

[69:42] And we pray these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.